This article details a proposed revision to Switzerland's encryption laws that threatens to extend surveillance obligations, requiring companies like VPN providers to collect user identification and potentially offer backdoors to encrypted content. While privacy-focused Swiss companies such as Proton VPN and NymVPN vocally oppose the changes, with Proton threatening to leave the country, the Swiss cloud security company Infomaniak has surprisingly come out in support. Infomaniak argues for a "happy medium" to prevent a "Wild West" digital landscape, often conflating privacy with anonymity and advocating for metadata collection. Opponents, however, contend that metadata collection is a significant privacy risk and that the law undermines the core principles of privacy-preserving services, particularly impacting those in censorious regimes who rely on free VPNs. The proposed law is currently in its consultation phase, which ended on May 6, 2025.
Summarizing the Proposed Swiss Encryption Law
Starting Point: Proposed Law Threatens Privacy: Switzerland's proposed changes to encryption laws aim to extend surveillance obligations, requiring companies to collect user identification and potentially offer backdoors to encrypted content.
Impact on Privacy Services: This revision would significantly undermine the no-logs policies of privacy-focused VPNs and other services, forcing them to collect identifiable user information.
Strong Opposition: Swiss-based Proton VPN and NymVPN are major opponents. Proton CEO Andy Yen has stated the company would rather leave Switzerland than compromise user privacy. Encrypted messaging app Threema also opposes the law.
Infomaniak's Contrarian Support: Swiss "ethical cloud" company Infomaniak is a surprising supporter of the law, arguing for a balance to prevent a "digital Wild West."
Privacy vs. Anonymity Debate: Infomaniak spokesperson Thomas Jacobsen conflates privacy (protecting data, not logging activity) with anonymity (identity unknown, no trace left). VPNs primarily offer privacy, not full anonymity.
Critique of Free VPNs: Infomaniak criticizes free VPN services, claiming they allow individuals to "hide from the law," despite their crucial role for people under censorship.
Metadata Collection: Infomaniak supports metadata collection (geolocation, date/time, IP addresses, sender/receiver info) as acceptable for prosecuting illicit activities, likening it to requiring ID for phone numbers.
Opponent's View on Metadata: Opponents argue that metadata collection is a fundamental privacy risk, as it allows for identification and prosecution even without access to encrypted content.
Consultation Phase: The Swiss government's consultation on the proposed law ended on May 6, 2025, with findings yet to be known.
Summary of Hacker News Discussion
The Hacker News discussion largely revolves around the implications of the proposed Swiss encryption law, Infomaniak's stance, and the broader future of online privacy.
The "Where to Go" Dilemma (00:00 - 02:00):
Many commenters discuss the lack of truly safe havens for privacy-focused tech companies, given that traditional options like Switzerland or EU countries are increasingly enacting surveillance laws (e.g., "ProtectEU," "Chat Control").
Proposed alternatives like the UAE are immediately criticized for their own VPN bans and selective blocking of services.
Sweden (Mullvad VPN's base) is also seen as potentially vulnerable to future EU regulations.
The consensus among some is that it's a "constant game of whack-a-mole," where smaller nations will inevitably succumb to pressure from larger powers (e.g., US, EU), citing Switzerland's past change in banking secrecy laws and the Crypto AG scandal.
Self-hosting is suggested as the only true way to achieve privacy. Fictional entities like "Sealand" are dismissed as impractical due to lack of sovereignty and internet connectivity.
Justification for Surveillance vs. Privacy (02:00 - 05:00):
A significant debate emerges regarding the balance between law enforcement needs and individual privacy.
Some argue against "lawless places" where individuals/companies can escape national laws, suggesting that such zones are exploited for nefarious purposes more than for protecting law-abiding citizens. They advocate for changing bad laws through democratic representation rather than enabling "law avoidance."
Others express deep concern about a global "shift toward authoritarianism" driven by both populist strongmen and "technocratic corporatism" (e.g., China, a faction of the EU), which they see as constantly attacking privacy and security.
The concept of "shared values" (e.g., "murder is bad," "stealing is bad," "human dignity") is heavily debated. Critics argue that these are subjective, have historical counter-examples (death penalty, war, starvation, historical genocides linked to "deprivatization"), and are often used by groups to suppress dissent. They prefer defining acceptable boundaries on actions rather than imposing universal values.
Critique of Infomaniak and User Reactions (05:00 - 10:00):
There is widespread disappointment and anger towards Infomaniak, especially given its previous marketing as an "ethical cloud" company.
Commenters express feeling "bitter" or "betrayed," calling Infomaniak a "maniac hoarder of metadata."
Many users, including those who recently migrated services (domains, emails, cloud storage) to Infomaniak, immediately announce plans to move their data elsewhere and encourage others to do the same, citing Infomaniak's stance as the reason.
Some acknowledge that supporting surveillance might be an "understandable business perspective" for hosting companies to avoid problematic customers, but this is largely rejected as an acceptable justification.
Technical and Philosophical Nuances (10:00 - 15:00):
The distinction between privacy and anonymity is reiterated, with recognition that VPNs primarily offer privacy (data protection) rather than full anonymity (identity unknown).
PGP is suggested as a better option for email privacy, coupled with self-hosting.
Concerns are raised about the implications of AI gaining access to vast amounts of personal and biometric data, leading to profiling, disinformation, and potential manipulation, which some find "terrifying" and "chilling."
Some commenters, reflecting on the potential for misuse of data, suggest that anonymity might be becoming an "obsolete concept," while others maintain that privacy is a fundamental right that should be fought for.
Outlook on Swiss Law (15:00 - 16:00):
Despite Infomaniak's support, some Swiss commenters believe the proposed law is "broadly opposed by Swiss political parties" and is "very unlikely to happen," characterizing it as "sound and heat."
However, others point out that Swiss privacy (e.g., related to Proton) is already subject to surveillance by the Swiss Federal Intelligence Agency.
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