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Abstract:
Journalist and historian Anne Applebaum joins Tim Miller on The Bulwark Podcast to discuss the erosion of democratic institutions and norms in the United States, drawing parallels to autocratic regimes, and the devastating global consequences of shifting U.S. foreign policy. The conversation begins with the personalization of politics, exemplified by corporate leaders like Tim Cook offering lavish gifts to the President out of fear and a need to curry favor. Applebaum argues this signals a dangerous shift away from institutional processes toward a system based on the whims of a single leader, a trend also seen in the politicization of the FBI and the purging of career officials. She then analyzes the arbitrary and damaging nature of new U.S. tariffs, which cause severe economic disruption in countries like Lesotho and undermine international trust. The discussion also covers the war in Ukraine, where Applebaum asserts Putin's goals are primarily ideological—the destruction of an independent, democratic Ukraine—rather than a reaction to NATO. Finally, she provides a detailed, harrowing account of the civil war in Sudan, presenting it as a stark example of a post-liberal world order where the state has collapsed, self-interested foreign powers fuel the conflict, and Western humanitarian aid, particularly the logistical backbone provided by USAID, has been carelessly dismantled, leading to catastrophic human suffering.
Anne Applebaum on the Rise of Autocracy and the Collapse of Global Order
0:00 Personalized Politics and Corporate Fear: The discussion starts with Tim Cook’s gift of a gold-based plaque to Donald Trump. Applebaum analyzes this as a worrying sign that U.S. politics is becoming highly personalized, where influencing policy depends on offering flattering gifts to a single leader rather than engaging with institutions. This creates a culture of fear where CEOs feel they must "suck up" to the president to avoid being targeted, a practice that contradicts the principles of a free-market democracy.
5:17 The Dangers of Politicized Decisions: Applebaum draws a parallel to the Soviet Union, which ultimately collapsed because its economic and scientific leadership decisions were based on political loyalty rather than merit and competence. She warns that a similar dynamic is emerging in the U.S., where officials and even private sector leaders are being pressured or pushed out based on their perceived loyalty, which historically leads to decline and catastrophe.
7:39 The Failure of Collective Action: Applebaum points out the irony that powerful CEOs are individually vying for favor out of fear. She argues that if they, or other groups like university presidents, were to act collectively and stand together against autocratic pressure, they would have far more power and control over their own destinies.
9:53 Politicization of the Justice System: The forced ousting of a well-regarded, career FBI official is discussed as a clear example of the politicization of government institutions. This creates a dangerous precedent for a system based on political revenge and retribution, rather than the impartial rule of law.
11:04 The Unclear 'Long-Term Game' of Autocrats: Applebaum questions whether those enabling this autocratic shift are prepared for a future opposition to use the same personalized, unchecked powers against them. She concludes that their plan is either extremely short-sighted or, more ominously, based on the assumption that they will never have to relinquish power again.
14:15 Whimsical Tariffs and Global Consequences: The arbitrary nature of newly imposed U.S. tariffs is highlighted, with countries like Switzerland and Lesotho facing severe, unexpected economic repercussions. Applebaum describes this as a "whimsical" approach to foreign policy that destabilizes the global economy, erodes trust in the U.S. as a reliable partner, and causes immense human suffering with a careless flick of a pen.
18:32 Putin's True Goal: The Subjugation of Ukraine: Applebaum argues that Putin's war is not primarily about preventing NATO expansion, as Ukraine was never close to joining. Instead, she asserts it is an ideological conflict aimed at destroying Ukraine's independence and its existence as a democratic state, which Putin sees as an existential threat to his own autocratic rule in Russia.
27:59 Sudan: A Glimpse into a Post-Liberal World Order: Applebaum describes the horrific civil war in Sudan as the epitome of a world without a liberal order. The state has disintegrated, leaving a power vacuum filled by warring factions and transactional foreign powers (like Russia, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia) who are prolonging the conflict for their own gain (e.g., gold), with no framework of international law or humanitarian concern.
38:06 The "Criminal Carelessness" of Dismantling USAID: The conversation highlights the catastrophic and immediate impact of the abrupt shutdown of USAID. Applebaum explains that USAID provided not only 40% of the world's humanitarian aid but, crucially, nearly 90% of the logistical support (trucking, payments, statistics) that enabled all aid organizations to function. Its sudden removal has caused the entire humanitarian system in places like Sudan to collapse.
43:55 Human Resilience in Sudan: Despite the unimaginable suffering and abandonment by the international community, Applebaum shares stories of hope. She witnessed local Sudanese people organizing emergency soup kitchens and aid networks, still believing in and working towards a better, more just future for their country, a testament to the resilience of the human spirit.
47:38 Book Recommendation: Applebaum recommends the novel "The Director" by Daniel Kehlmann, about an anti-Nazi German film director who struggles in Hollywood and returns to Nazi Germany, exploring themes of compromise and moral readjustment under autocracy.
Summary of YouTube Comments:
The comments section reveals an overwhelmingly positive and engaged reaction to Anne Applebaum and her analysis, alongside deep concern and anger about the topics discussed. The main themes are:
Overwhelming Praise for Anne Applebaum: The vast majority of comments express profound admiration for Applebaum. She is repeatedly described as brilliant, knowledgeable, articulate, honest, and a "national treasure." Many viewers state that she is a "must-watch" guest whose calm delivery provides clarity even when discussing horrifying news.
Corporate Capitulation and CEO Criticism: A significant number of commenters are disgusted by the behavior of Tim Cook and other CEOs, condemning their actions as greedy, cowardly, and shameful. They see the gift to Trump as a clear sign of corporate leaders choosing personal profit over democratic principles.
Emotional Response to the Sudan Crisis: Viewers are heartbroken and horrified by the description of the conflict in Sudan and the devastating impact of the USAID cuts. Many express shame that the U.S. has abandoned its humanitarian role, viewing the inaction as a "criminal carelessness."
Fear and Agreement on U.S. Autocracy: Many comments echo the video's central theme, expressing fear that the U.S. is rapidly descending into autocracy. They agree with the analysis that the personalization of politics, purges at the FBI, and attacks on institutions are signs that "everything the Founders feared is happening."
The Power of the Wildflower Metaphor: Applebaum's opening anecdote about her wildflower garden defeating the weeds resonated strongly with many viewers. They embraced it as a powerful and uplifting metaphor for hope, resilience, and the possibility of good triumphing over corruption and nihilism.
Sense of Helplessness and Call for Action: While some express a sense of hopelessness, others call for collective action, echoing Applebaum's point that leaders and institutions must band together to resist authoritarianism. There is a palpable feeling of anger and a desire for accountability.